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User: Tralhob

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Posted in Atheists Only on 2008-10-09 07:16:20

Why ask the question in the first place? Where did the notion come from? Wouldn't even asking the question grant undue credence to doubt, unless it is stipulated first that this is only a philisophical excercise?

I asked you first. What is a "living personal god?" If I have to stipulate that this is only a philosophical exercise to get a straight answer from you, fine. I stipulate that this is only a philosophical exercise. What else would it be, anyway?

What is a "living personal god?"


What the hell is "Heaven? An Elf? A Unicorn?"

Irrelevant to this discussion, is what. By the way, how much does broccoli cost where you live?

And how do you know it does not exist?

How do you know I know they don't exist? And how is it relevant anyway?

You said you knew for an empirical fact that a "personal living god" does not exist. HOW do you know this?


Go ask an atheist.

How will I know who's an atheist?


Disbelief requires a conscious choice to entertain the notion that the concept of a living personal god is more than a notion, and is, in the claimers mind, an absolute fact, and therefor effort must be shown to disprove the notion, lending credence to another notion, and that notion being that the question need be asked at all.

No, disbelief is much simpler, and broader, than that. It doesn't require an encyclopedia entry. In fact, wikipedia's only article on "Disbelief" is about a German death metal band. Sorry, bub. You don't have the authority to redefine words as you see fit.


you may not have been able to prove that there is such a thing as a weak or strong form of atheism

Gloating after what, two exchanges so far?

I turn 34 in December, and I have family members who have lived to be over 100. Conservatively, I can expect to live another 40 years; I may well have 70 years left in me. That's about 14,610 days (conservatively). I've posted thrice today. So let's assess who's proved what after 43,830 posts, shall we?

Posted in Atheists Only on 2008-10-09 00:19:14

What the hell is a "living personal god?"

And how do you know it does not exist?

Also, please provide me with "THE" definition of atheism, verbatim. Include source.

Here are a few from , but I'm sure none of them are "THE" definition, since a lot of them mention "disbelief."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

Oh, what's this? Wiktionary?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atheist

Damn, that can't be "THE" definition either...doesn't say anything about dead certainty.

Lemme check my good old paper dictionary here...Webster's Deluxe Unabrdiged, Seocnd Edition. Athapascan, Athecata, athecate...ah, here it is!

atheism, n. [Fr. atheisme, from Gr. atheos, without a god; a priv., and theos, god.] the belief that there is no God.

So that one must be wrong too, since it doesn't mention dead certainty. I give up. Where can I find "THE" definition?

Also...is it really true that "disbelief" involves a conscious choice not to believe? Maybe I'll look that up next, but man, I'm dictionaried out!

Posted in Atheists Only on 2008-10-08 23:03:07

adk is articulating the exact same arguments I would, in almost exactly the same way.

To wit, Shadowwatcher's definition of atheism is highly personal and idiosyncretic. Dead certainty is not an essential element of atheism.

Even less so is a refusal to admit that you just might conceivably be wrong. Even Richard Dawkins, the uber-atheist of them all, acknowledges that he could be wrong. He says this because he does not KNOW, as an empirical FACT, that God does not exist. Nobody does. It is silly when atheists claim they KNOW that God does not exist. They would have to know everything to know that.

Shadowwatcher: you do not KNOW that God does not exist. I'm sure you know what you BELIEVE, but that's not the same thing.

To say that disbelief requires belief is self-evidentally ludicrous. If "there is nothing to believe or disbelieve"...then what are you talking about, exactly?

To spell it out: atheists acknowledge the existence of the IDEA of God. They just don't think that the idea reflects reality.

By the way: my own beliefs lie in the grey area between weak atheism and agnosticism.

Posted in Should we drill for more oil? on 2008-10-08 20:58:21

"The wackos don't want you to know that most of our imported oil comes from Canada and Mexico anyway"

False. Be careful with statistics! Out of all the countries we import our oil from, they are the top two. But they don't suppply us with most of our oil. We get more from the Persian Gulf than from Canada.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

If you think ANWAR or even the sum total of all US reserves can match the Persian Gulf (i.e. the Middle East), you are profoundly mistaken.

Posted in Do you understand the Fincial Cricis on 2008-10-08 18:14:07

Nina, that is nonsense. Noone forced mortgage lenders to make subprime loans. They chose to do it themselves, believing it would be profitable to do so.