Welcome! Sign in to access your account. New user?
ADULT: OFF HOME DIRECTORY SEARCH RANDOM POLL MAKE A POLL

Parenting and Spanking

Response To Bob

Posted by R.J. on 2018-10-24 16:33:14

Bob,

The other site was becoming lengthy and so I thought I would response here. As I likely previously told you, my mom didn't spank. I was however never aware of her objecting when dad did. She however saved me a few I suspect by not telling dad of some misdeeds. My dad never spanked in anger and I think that was good. When your brother got that brush spanking to the point the brush broke, that I'm sure was a result of mom's anger rather than cooling down before punishing. That is when the fine line between punishment & potential abuse can occur. If your parents attitude with regards to punishment changed after the spanking that broke the brush, maybe that was enough to scare mom, maybe dad too, about spanking in anger.

What boy might not become more tolerant as we get older toward the idea of being spanked. It wasn't what I wanted when it was happening, but too as I got older, I saw what dad did was good parenting in that day and I deserved the spankings. I too saw myself as a good boy, but even good boys mess up and make mistakes that need to be corrected. As a kid it might not have made a big difference if mom had spanked me on bare bottom, but as you said, as I got around 11 and older, it was less embarrassing to pull down underwear and have dad tan my bare hide than mom. At home, I'll admit that dad could bring me to tears with a spanking. At school in 8th grade & again with the HS paddling, there would be no tears in front of peers or the vice principal.

My last from dad at 16 was well deserved. What I had said and my 'too big/too old' attitude couldn't get off with a soap washing of my mouth. Less than an hour earlier dad had already grounded me for my arguing & defiance that led to the foul mouth remark. I had given dad few alternatives for punishment short of busting my rear end and looking back now, had I been the dad, I would've done a bare hide whipping too. Times have now changed Bob. Maybe because you & Flash are probably younger than me, times were different for you guys already with regard to corporal punishment. I can't say, only you can say that the stubbornness you said you had art 20 as a college guy was a result of not being spanked more often when you were younger. I know I am a better man, husband, hopefully as a dad, because of how my parents raised me. Many of the guys I grew up with and still have knowledge of became fine men too and apparently getting our backsides tanned at school or home had no harm...maybe even did some good.

I recall a talk my dad & I had when I was in my early 20s and he explained why he did the 'wait in my room' as he cooled down before spanking me. That was good parenting I think. He never slapped me on the face, as apparently Flash said he got around age 13 from his dad. Saw a few friends as boys get face slapped too and always thought that was more harmful & wrong. If you're going to smack, then smack his butt and as my dad taught me, do it on the bare butt so you have that visual barometer to know when you've spanked enough with abusive injury. A face, hand, feet being punished can inflict injury; his young butt can take it better with the hand, paddle or belt.

I saw in a message Flash gave you that he felt you should've challenged that school rule a second time at 14 so as to have experienced the differences between the detention with writing assignment that you opted and to know what a caning on your trouser seat would've been like. I'm sure you didn't want to really know what a cane to seat of trousers was like at 14. It is perfectly fine with me when Flash said he was never subjected to cp in school like I was, but wonder if he shouldn't too have had at least one experience where his attitude/behavior that got him detentions often enough for even minor infraction, would've gotten him bent over a desk for a paddling. If not school, then school notify his dad and his dad paddle spank me. He said in a message that the face slap from dad got his attention for sure and adjusted his behavior for awhile at 13, so maybe had dad not slapped face but smacked his $%!@ at 13, would've made a similar impact. Privacy with only dad and me in the room was far better in my opinion too than paddled at school by the vp with another peer present. That is just another of my personal thoughts on cp. It doesn't have to happen and it isn't the only or always best punishment for a boy, but if deemed necessary to correct a boy and keep him on straight path and away from trouble with the law that could inflict more damage on his future, then yes, it's OK to pull down those shorts & tan his hide.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts...

Rick

Posted by bob76 on 2018-10-24 22:21:23

Rick,

I think different styles of parenting can be effective, and the decision whether to use CP at home and at school has a lot to do with culture and the way people were brought up. As you've noted, American culture has been moving in the direction of using CP less than in the past. Even without CP I think it's important to set limits and teach children the importance of following rules.

I don't have experience as a parent but I do have experience as a babysitter of my siblings (starting at age 10!), cousins, nephews and nieces. Other than my report at age 10 that my 7 year old brother deserved 38 spankings (according to a letter written by my father at the time; I don't actually remember this) I never found it necessary to use CP or give a bad report to the kids' parents. Maybe I'd have been tempted to resort to CP if I were a father and had to deal with rebellious and misbehaving kids, but I think I'd have found other ways of correcting their behavior.

Yes, I think my mom and dad realized that my mom had lost control and spanked in anger when she broke a hairbrush on my brother's butt. Their solution, in effect, was to stop spanking us but keep it as a theoretical option. Maybe they could have agreed on a cooling down period before spanking us. Personally I'm happy that my parents stopped spanking us and I think we turned out O.K. The same goes for my sister's kids, who were never spanked. They've both graduated from college and are fine young adults.

I don't think I would have mouthed off to my dad when I was 16. My response when things didn't go my way was sullen resentment, what my parents called the "slitty eyed look". I suppose some parents would have considered that to be a bad attitude. By age 18 and 20, after I'd started going to college, I was more willing to challenge my father's authority. As I wrote elsewhere, the crisis came when I was 20 and refused to go to church when I was visiting my parents. Looking back on it now, it wouldn't have killed me to go to church to keep peace in the family, as my siblings did in later years, even though I no longer believed in God. At the time it was important to me to establish my independence, and I didn't like what I saw as the hypocrisy of non-believers going to church. Who knows: maybe I wouldn't have been as assertive in speaking to my father at 20 if he'd whipped my bare $%!@ as recently as four years earlier. Fortunately we got past that and our relationship is fine now, even if every now and then he makes me feel like a rebellious teenager again. I guess parents will always be parents.

You're right that I had no wish at age 14 to find out what it was like to be caned. I did have some close calls as I've written elsewhere but I managed to avoid getting CP at school. I'm not convinced that Flash would have benefited from CP, although he definitely broke some rules, such as underage drinking (apparently he was never punished for that) and cutting class, and he probably set a bad example for his fellow students. Still, it sounds like he turned out O.K., as did you.

Bob

Posted by flash gordon on 2018-10-25 01:21:45

Rick,

I hope you realize that I was kidding when I told Bob that he should have repeated his (heinous) offense of walking across the grass and then chosen a caning instead of the ping pong ball essay, so he could compare the two. While I don't think it would have been that big of a deal if he had done that, I wouldn't suggest that to somebody other than as a joke. We talk about how it might have been beneficial for both of us to experience the form of punishment that we didn't get, so that was along those same lines.

Bob is right that I was never punished for underage drinking. I never really got caught though it wouldn't have been too hard for somebody to catch me. At that time, the attitude toward older high school students drinking was pretty permissive, and I was 16-17 when I started, rather than 14-15, which is when the real "bad" kids started. So I don't think it would have been viewed as much of a problem even if I had been caught. I suspect my parents knew about it and did nothing because they didn't see it as a big issue, as long as I didn't drive drunk, which I never did. It was only a very short time before drinking would have been legal for me anyway (at age 18).

Where I disagree with you is that I don't see a problem with the "stubbornness" that Bob exhibited at 20 when he didn't want to go to church at his father's insistence. While it's nice to go to church and I go every week, sometimes more than once, I don't think anybody should be forced to attend church beyond a certain age. At age 20, Bob was a man and had a right to make his own decision about that, IMO, and not to be taking orders from his parents as if he were still 12. I think that developing that sense of self, and standing up for your own preferences, is a healthy thing, and I don't really think that having been hit at school or at home for minor transgressions when he was younger would or should have made any difference in that regard.

As far as my father busting my butt when I was 17, and whether that would have changed my behavior, it's hard to imagine it. He never hit any of his kids past childhood or very early adolescence, and honestly, I don't think my behavior needed changing all that much. I went to a strict school that punished minor transgressions, so I partook in that punishment sometimes, but the reality is that my entire senior year, I cut about 6 classes. That is about 1/150 of my total classes for the year, or less than 1%. And for that I spent a whole chunk of hours in detention or doing work details after school. So I was punished plenty for the minor stuff that I did. Not complaining, because I chose to do it and disregarded the possibility of punishment and the effects of past punishment. That was my choice, and I didn't have regrets then or now. I'm not sure why you think that a different form of punishment would have changed my apparent need to push back against rules even if it meant getting into trouble. For me, it was part of growing up, and making me the person I am today, for better or worse. I think most people have to go through a stage like that one way or another, and when they don't, the effects of it aren't always good.

We were raised a bit differently, though I think there were probably more similarities than differences in the way were raised, especially when compared to kids who were raised without limitations or guidance at all. While our views are a bit different, I completely respect where you are coming from.

Posted by bob76 on 2018-10-26 01:35:38

Flash,

Regarding my confrontation with my father about not going to church, I think I could have handled it better than I did. I was risking a permanent, or at least long term, rift with my parents, and it's fortunate that my dad backed down because I wasn't going to. Until I went to college my family was the one constant as we moved from city to city and country to country, and I shouldn't have been so willing to throw that away.

I think the argument caught both me and my father by surprise. When I said that I wasn't going to church I didn't anticipate that the answer would be "no". I just wanted to go back to bed, since I was used to sleeping in on Sundays. When my father said that as long as I was under his roof I would have to follow his rules it became a matter of pride. I wasn't in high school anymore, or even a teenager. On the other hand, maybe I should have been willing to make a small sacrifice to keep my parents happy, especially since they were helping to pay for me to go to college. Anyway, it worked out O.K. in the end - another lucky break for me.

From my dad's point of view it must have felt like a slap in the face, a repudiation of the way I'd been brought up. Christianity was a big part of our lives. I have good memories of watching "Jesus Christ Superstar" with my father when I was 13 and watching him singing Christian songs and playing them on his guitar. I even sang some of the songs with him and my mom in church. But once I left home and especially when I went to college and started thinking things through, Christianity didn't make sense to me. Why should the Christians be right and everyone else be wrong? What proof is there for any religion at all? I only went to church when I was with my parents, and after that blowup I stopped going altogether.

I do think that at a certain age children, especially adult children, should be allowed to make their own choices about religion.

Bob

Posted by flash gordon on 2018-10-26 01:46:39

Bob,

I agree that at a certain age, everybody has to make their own choice about religion. I have drifted away from it and back again, a couple of times. But I find I am better off when i have it in my life.

I don't think that being a Christian necessarily means thinking that everybody else is wrong. There are some Christians that are like that, but I have never subscribed to that thinking. I think religion runs a spectrum, and there are different interpretations of Christianity, as there are of other religions. But most religions are pretty much the same in their message, so it's hard to say that one is right and another wrong.

I've already explained some of the reasons why I have maintained my faith. In your case, while it surely wouldn't have killed you to play along with what your parents wanted for a little while longer, eventually you would have reached the point of having to tell them that you were no longer going to church. I certainly don't think what you did was wrong, though it must have been painful for them and made them feel that they had failed in some way. It's impossible for us not to do that to our parents sometimes, unfortunately.

I disagreed with Rick's suggestion that it may have been a good thing for you to have been physically punished when you were younger because that might have made you more likely to yield to your father's wishes at age 20. If having been physically punished makes you afraid to make your own life decisions if they are at variance with your parents, then I think that is not a good outcome and would argue against physical punishment.

I too have good memories of "Jesus Christ Superstar." My religion class in 11th grade had a big focus on the play and movie, and I had the soundtrack to it (on an 8-track tape). Did you ever see "Godspell," another religious play that was popular around that same time?