User: FEMWIN

Posted by: Alex

Well said. Though, no less should be expected from Helen.

I wasn't there at the convention, unfortunately, but it sounds like there's a bit too much whining about ju jitsu and whether or not it's a problem. I don't see the issue myself. I happen to enjoy highly skilled women putting their training on display.

I do see, though, how those who are looking for specific holds and such i.e. breast smothers, head scissors etc. etc. would be bored with a product that doesn't employ them. Everyone is different.

It really does come down to breaking this type or wrestling into two different genres, in my opinion. That, I feel, one of the better ways to address those unhappy fans while providing women avenues that play to their stength; so as not to become bored, as Helen pointed out. And, in the end, I would think that this would help avoid injuries.

Posted by: Helen Von Mott

Personally, I'M tired of being cast in the role of the villan, simply because women with too much ego and too little common sense refuse to tap out when caught in a submission hold. I't not holds that are dangerous - it's STUPIDITY that's dangerous!

Look - there is no safer opponent to go up against than ME. Because of my training, I can almost guarantee that I'm not going to hurt anyone accidentally. When I had that chick in an armbar, I held the pressure steady and waited for her to tap. She refused. Slowly I increased the pressure. She STILL refused to tap. Finally, fearing that she was going to force me to break her arm before she would admit to defeat - I let her go. That kind of crap is not only dangerous - it's totally disrespectful of one's opponent. By doing what Kara (?) did, she put me in a 'no-win' situation. I mean - I chose to let her go, knowing that that match could have very easily been judged to be a 'draw', simply because I knew the girl was in danger, and I didn't want to see her get hurt. For the record - had I been holding her in a waist scissors or an a headlock, she would have no doubt gotten hurt MUCH worse (Kiki wound up with broken ribs from just such a move after wrestling Frankie btw...).

As far as BJJ matches being 'boring'...ummmm....did you actually SEE my matches??? I mean - I was wrestling TWO women AT THE SAME TIME, both of whom were trying to KILL ME in a COMPETITIVE contest, and not only are you on my case because one of THEM was a little sore afterwards, but you're also saying that you thought it was BORING and UNEMOTIONAL?!?!? **! There is just no pleasing some people!

As far as Kristie's match with Grace - I'm sorry but in my opinion, that was really a beautiful, passionate, and extremely exiting match. It's not Grace's fault that Kristie's got an attitude problem. She pulled the same BS when she wrestled Gianna at the last convention in Pasadena. She refuses to tap out when she gets in a bad position, and then in order to save face, she puts on a 'poor little me' act to make the other girl look like a bad guy. Kristie wasn't 'injured' from that choke hold - she was SULKING because she LOST.

And finally - as to BJJ matches being 'unemotional' ...well- YES. That's the whole POINT. I mean - I don't WANT to feel any sort of hatred or even dislike for my opponent. I really don't want to hurt anyone! That doesn't mean that I'm not 'passionate' about WINNING. (I AM.) It just means that I'm not actually out for blood. That's not a BAD thing...

Look - the legitimacy of 'submission style wrestling'(aka 'no-gi Jiu Jitsu') - with rules that INCLUDE the use of joint locks AND carotid artery chokes - has just been sanctioned by FILA (the international organization governing the sport of wrestling). If you don't like watching contests of real strategy and skill and instead prefer a more primal/visceral thrill - fine. Go watch something else. If you have a problem with the of any of the holds - take it up with FILA. If it's really the safety of the wrestlers that you have issue with, tell Jackpin that he needs to get trained referees next time. NONE of the injuries that happened at the last event would ever have occurred if there had been someone in the ring skilled and knowledgable enough to STOP the action when one of the combatants was in danger.

Remember - women's wrestling isn't just about the fans - it's about us women too! Maybe for you guys the scissor hold is endlessly intruiging, but for us girls, the fascination wears thin pretty darn quickly. I mean - you could shave a chimp, stick it in a bikini, and teach it to do a scissor hold. There's really not a whole hell of a lot to take satisfaction in with a move like that. It's like the difference between a game of tic-tac-toe and a chess match. Eventually, in order to stay enthusiastic, you simply have to evolve (well...some of us do anyway... ;-) )

Posted by: Danswenile

well said mike..

it's painful watching a joint lock.. untrained girls think it doesn't hurt so they think it's a submission hold. It's not. It's a damage/break joints with minimal effort hold. It's pointless..

I've even one video - not a femwin one - where a girl did the armbar and pulled the arm left/right because she wasn't getting a submission. It pains me to see that. And even if no damage is intended. If not done with care, it can do damage, with the slightest wrong movement by either party involved.

I think we agree totally on joint locks..

Regarding leg scissors though- Leg Scissors look HOT, but if done as a submission, could break ribs. Why can't it just be a thing to try to get out of, so the girl doing it is looking dominant. but not to try to get a submission.

Joint locks are for BJJ competitions, done by professionals, and at great risk. Not for hot videoed femwin stuff. Mixing them is like mixing driving with alcohol.

Posted by: Mike from Toronto

Don't allow joint-locks. Problem = solved.

Posted by: Alex

Whether or not I like ju jitsu in matches or not isn't really the point. My point is that I disagree with your assessment that ju jitsu is the cause for boring matches and the countless injuries that you have observed in your line of work.

When I say that you aka Femwin (help me out if I have stated that incorrectly) helped create "the problem" I'm saying that ju jitsu is used so much as a result of the talent you use and the skill sets you apparently seek out. So I don't feel that the practice of ju jitsu is to blame; more over I feel that the way you set up matches and pair girls together is more to blame.

Personally, i don't have a problem with anything that you guys do. I enjoy your product because there is, more times than not, a lot of genuine competition involved. To me, I see no problem and I am not bored with your product at all. However, to say that you are dissatisfied with some of the product because of ju jitsu is a way to avoid taking responsibility for a situation that you largely helped create. Don't you think so?