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Connections, coincidences, and Illusiory corelations

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Posted by boterfofy on 2006-07-24 04:29:02

The pollster is trying to make a moral equivilency arguement to make it appear as if the US and Israel are commiting the same kinds of acts as terrorists. There is one difference, however, that seperates the good guys from the bad guys. The terrorists (UBL, Iranian and Syrian terrorists in Iraq, and Hezbollah) intentionally target civilians, while the US and Israel have gone out of their way to avoid civilian casualties.

Unfortunately, they have not been able to avoid civilian casaulties, because of the nature of the way the terrorists act. In Iraq, terrorists dress like civilians and pretend to be civilians thereby endangering the civilian population, b/c US forces are not able to always tell the difference. Hezbollah intentionally places their weapons in the middle of civilian populations, so that Israel's strikes against them will kill civilians, and it will appear that Israel is targeting civilians. IN reality it is Hezbollah that is targeting civilians, while Israel is attempting to take out Hezbollah's weapons with as few civilian casualties as possible.
Posted by proud lefty on 2006-07-24 13:13:21

Boterfly, Israel has installed a blockade on the nation of Lebanon. It has bombed its civilian airport, it bridges and its rods. Whole neighbourhoods of Lebanon have been desimated by bombing. 600,000 Lebanese have been forced to flee from their homes and Israeli have attacked them as they were leaving. Yesterday, Israel told a village of Lebanese to abandon their village, those who obeyed were attacked by Israeli planes. Israel has attacked at villages and civilian infrastructure. It has killed approx. 350 Lebanese civilians. The entire economic future of Lebanon for the next decade is ruined. Israeli has invaded a sovereign state and is breaking international law. The ratio of Israeli-Lebanese fatalities is 10-1, and while around half of the Israelis killed have been soldiers, all but a few of the Lebanese have been civilians.

Israel´s current attack is intended to collectively punish the people of Lebanon, taht is the only possible explanation for the current nature of its attacks. It consists of the ethnic cleansing of the people of southern Lebanon, the blockade of the entire nation, the destruction of thousands of homes and the massacre of hundreds of people.

Posted by dave3 on 2006-07-24 15:42:14

Proud Lefty--I hear what you're saying.And certainly,"collective punishment" doesn't sound very nice.But I was wondering what you think the Israelis are so concerned about...are they suffering under the collective delusion that the muslim world is against them and wants them destroyed?Did centuries of jew-hatred and the holocaust warp their minds that much?Are black Africans imagining that Arabs are against them...do they have as much business being concerned about this as they would about,say- a famine (re-)occuring?Both will kill you...the famine's just less selective.If the Left really wants to change the world according to its own principles,it should abandon the arabist cause...it isn't your friend and it won't fight your fights.It is to the Left,what the Saudi royal family is to America-partners of convenience.Their world-vision is completely incompatible with yours...even more so than between the Left and Bush-types."the enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't make sense here...if you don't believe me,go quiz the muslim/arab world about Leftist values;they disagree with most of them.Not to sound too condescending(you can nail me back later),but it took Western Stalinists an entire generation to admitt what had been done in the name of expediency,for the leftist cause.I bid you peace,and hope the Israelis and Lebenese find some way to end this carnage.

Posted by James Foley on 2006-07-24 20:49:42

Cause:George Bush tells Saddam Hussein he has 10 days to vacate his own country Effect: Other countries perk up their ears

Cause: George Bush's Admin. convinces the senate based on dubious info to sidestep the capture of Osama Bin Laden and concentrate on Iraq, a country not in the slightest associated with 9/11 Effect:Other countries strongly protest, but wait with baited breathe [at this point hypersensitive leaders and governments are paying real close attention to what happens next]

Cause: George Bush's admin succeeds in not only taking down and capturing Saddam Hussein, he also dismantles and disarms its standing army with no plan for stabilizing it's government initially Effect: other countries hope for the best, expect the worst [hypersensitive countries take actions to step up military procedures and capabilities, and incensed muslim extremists mobilize for war, misguided as they may be, to not only 'free' Iraqis from the infidel scourge, but to increase their influence in the region among Iraqis who are biter over increased U.S. presence and occupation [call it what you want, it's an occupation, even if temporary?]]

Cause:George Bush claims freedom is on the march, highlights extremist christian manifest destiny like views to his base, shows desperate people smiling in the guise of ill-fated hope and shows their governments in a negative if not hostile light, and claims he has mandate and authority to promote democracy in governments he has no business in without invitation Effect: Non democratic, yet successful governments take issue with his audacity, and bullet train their agendas [Iran, N. Korea, etc.]

Posted by James Foley on 2006-07-24 21:08:04

Shadowwatcher>>>Dave3, should Mexico tell us how to run our country? Should Mexico use force when we run our country in a way contrary to what they believe is the right way to run our country?

Should America attack the entire country of Mexico if a rogue brigade of federalis kidnap a border patrol guard [i.e. Tijuana, cabo San Lucas, Mexico City, Guadalajara, etc.] indiscriminantly? After all they al have families and some sort of support in those towns and many others.

Guess what the Answer to all this is.... that's right... an emphatic NO.

That they would somehow "run to our aid" is never anything we are arguing for or believe even in your wildest [I assume republican] wet dreams. There isn't a single person here who supports terrorists or terrorism, so leave the propoganda where it came from... most likely up your butt. I mean no harsh offense to you I just make an observation of fact in regards to where propoganda usually comes from... namely up someones butt. And any implication that we here actually want terrorists to win in any fight is just that. A load of crap.

Noone here as well believes that a or any hypersensitive religiously fanatically run government is going to support any leftist creedoes (sp). Although, in truth, if god were left out of government, as it should be, we wouldn't have even half the problems we have today.

In a democratic society god has no place as it presents a conflict of interest. God represents a totalitarian Monarchy, the one instructs the many, like it or not, with an iron fist, whereas a democracy requires involvement from everybody.

And another wet dream many republicans and certainly the Isrealis have is that they're actually going to make a dent in Hezbollah. They'll just move. Isreal isn't going to weaken and degrade Hezbollah in Lebanon without Lebanons and the Lebanese peoples help, a feat they Definitely wil NOT accomplish by insulting the Lebanese government or its people or by bombarding them into what exactly? The beatings will continue until morale improves? Is that it/ Becauwse that what they seem to expects by their words and actions.