Patriotism in different American political, religious, and racial groups

The Bush administration is leading our country down a one way path to useless and endless wars, recession, and fascism. The war in Iraq was about the most ridiculous military excersize ever. After we let Bin Laden escape into Pakistan, we gave up on that operation, and invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 or fundamentalist Islam, and which was no threat to us. Then, using fear to get their point across, the patriot act and military commissions act gutted the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendments to the constitution. The 1st amendment is also in danger of becoming irrelevant due to the antics of the Bush crime family. Instead of investigating the obvious Saudi and Dubai connections to Al Queda, the Bush administration has wasted countless American lives and dollars, and again, is stripping away the rights that we enjoy. Bush also recently gave himself new emergency powers that would suspend the constitution if HE decides there is an emergency. Habeus Corpus, which our constitution is based on, is history because of the military commissions act. I believe it is extremely unpatriotic to support the antics of the Bush administration. Just because they wave the flag around means nothing.

I did NOT flag this poll by the way. I wish people wouldn't flag polls just because they disagree with the political views/content of them. I think we should all encourage thoughtful debate and realize that we don't all think alike

A few issues with your comments...

1) The War in Iraq dates back to 1991 - IRaq violated the Cease Fire repeatedly and in the late 1990s, President Clinton signed a law making REGIME CHANGE in Iraq the official U.S. Gov't policy. The Clinton Administration also bombed a "Chemical Factory" in Sudan because it was allegedly making Iraqi VX Nerve Gas for Al Qaeda. Finally, in the late 1990s, Saddam Hussein offered asylum to Osama bin Laden. So, apparently, there was quite a link between Iraq & Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorism.

2) We did not "let" bin Laden escape into Pakistan - we did not INVADE Pakistan. It was Afghani Warlords who agreed to a cease fire at Tora Bora and let him escape - the U.S., as soon as they found out what the warlord had done, started bombing that region to try to prevent the escape. As to "giving up" on the operation - perhaps you should check with the 20,000 or so U.S. military personnel still stationed and/or being deployed to Afghanistan (approximately the same number as when we invaded Afghanistan). I would suspect they would seriously disagree with your claim that the operation was given up on.

3) The Patriot Act did not gut anything... the Military Commissions Act ONLY applies to the people captured on the battlefields in Afghanistan (the people at Guantanamo Bay) - if you recall history, people taken captive on battlefields have NEVER been given the Habeus Corpus, access to the court system, Lawyers, etc. They are detained until the end of the war.

3) Bush hasn't granted himself (and CANNOT grant himself) any emergency powers. Read your Constitution - the Congress would have to grant Bush those powers, and the Supreme Court would have to rule on the Constitutionality of any such law when the millions of lawsuits are immediately filed.

Just Curious:

I'm glad someone is finally debating me in the Politics section again. I was getting bored!

1) It's hard to argue with some of your 1st points except that personally, I'm not a huge Clinton fan like all of us libs are supposed to be, but few that I know are. It was reported that Hussein offered to give Bin Laden asylum, but those reports have been disputed by some intelligence officials, and it is also widely known and reported that Hussein hated Islamic Fundamentalists and AlQueda in general since he was relatively secular and found them threatening to his power.

2) I don't blame the troops for the botched effort in Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. I think Bush and Rummy just gave bad directives. The operation should have relied more on U.S. troops and less on Afghan warlords from the start. Also, we had so much goodwill from the world after 9/11, I'm sure we could have been able to convince Pakistan to be more cooperative...maybe we still can. It WOULD be interesting to do an actual unbiased poll of current and past troops about their views on Iraq and Afghanistan. I am especially interested in what they think about how Bin Laden got away.

3) I would suggest that you and those who read our back and forth read the Constitution, the Military Commissions Act, and the Patriot Act, and judge for themselves. I am still convinced that the Military Commissions act allows the president to deny ANYONE their Habeus Corpus rights and Geneva Convention protections, as he gets to decide who he thinks is an enemy combatant. Why? This war and the concept of our enemy are not very well defined for one thing.

4) Look up NSPD-51 and HSPD-20. This would set up an "Enduring Constitutional government" directed by the president that would replace our regular government with NO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT!!! The definition of emergency is very loosely defined in these acts....and this is just part of the declassified portion of these acts.

I'm a bit tired so my arguments are a bit brief, but I would be glad to continue this discussion. I will be happy to elaborate further on my points, but I do have other stuff I have to do which is why I am also writing down things that people can research themselves.

Just Curious: I do appreciate your intelligence and respectfulness. I have not always found these qualities from some of the other more Conservative types I have debated on Misterpoll.

The Bush crime family has been trying to overthrow the government since the 1930s when It tried to stage a military coup to overthrow FDR with the help of Smedley Butler. The Bush crime family had business contacts with the Nazis through Herbert Walker and continued to sell war supplies until Prescot Bush and Uncle George Bush (not the President)were jailed in 1942. Can you find two Presidents' names in ut supra? As Fred Rodgers often said, "Sure you can." Yale history major George jr. did not know that Pakistan and Afghanistan are just federations of small kingdoms. So we have large groups of soldiers in Kabul. BFD! We should have concentrated on Tora Bora and ignored everything else. There is no such thing as a important secret. If it is important the other side will devote enough resources to find out the secret. In WWII we knew how to decode German code. Stalin knew how we built the bomb. The Republicans knew what lurked under Clinton's desk. We do not know where Benladen is and have not caught him in the midst of a trillion dollar war. Benladen gets caught and then there goes the Bush family's control over the US. The Scientific American had a recent issue on how we could stop importing oil through solar and wind power. This is plainly a war to keep us using oil and the Arabs in power.

When the Saudi royal family says "jump", the Bush crime family says "how high?".